The Catherine Grove Controversy (via facebook)
To those of you who are following the "Discerning the Church of Wells" website or FaceBook page and are sincerely seeking to discover the truth about what Andy Grove is accusing us of, we have provided this copy of the contention which recently unfolded on the Facebook Page (for more information please see "The Catherine Grove Controversy"). I understand that things can get confusing and convoluted on that page because of all the comments and interjections made by others, so I kept the argument here what Andy said and our responses (with anything else relevant):
Andy Grove's 1st Argument:
To Sean Morris Leader of the Church of Wells :
Sean, I am grateful that you have come forward to give some explanation to your teaching and practices at the Church of Wells. I am aware that my daughter Catherine has attempted to leave your church several times. These escape attempts are all documented by law enforcement. I have heard you say that Catherine desires to leave because of her sin. Could you explain to me what sin in Catherine's heart prompted her to Call 911 on April 2nd 2015 and ask for assistance from law enforcement to be taken to a women's shelter and subsequently requested to come home ? Catherine also phoned me from the Angelina Country Sheriff's office and asked me to come immediately to take her home. While travelling back to Arkansas with my daughter Catherine, I heard you speaking to Catherine on your white iPhone that Catherine had with her in the vehicle as I helped Catherine with her request to return immediately to her family in Arkansas. Sean, you said these words to my daughter Catherine, "Catherine, you have committed many grievous sins. Catherine, your soul is in great danger. God is pursuing you and he desires to kill you. There is no escape from God's wrath, unless you repent immediately and return. If you return to the church, God may show some favor on you and may choose not to kill you. You must turn back and return now. Don't be foolish Catherine God knows what you are doing. I don't want you to die in your sins Catherine. Turn back now! " Sean, could you explain why Catherine sitting next to me in the car went into convulsions after speaking to you on the phone? Why did Catherine collapse to the floor of my car trembling for the next several hours as we drove towards Arkansas? Catherine was howling over and over "Please God don't kill me! Please God don't kill me!" Catherine was clearly in a state of extreme distress and emotional exhaustion. The moaning, wailing, and trembling that was initiated by your phone call continued for several hours. It was immediately clear to me that Catherine must have suffered extreme abusive trauma while she was with your church. No wonder she has been attempting so many times to escape the Church of Wells. |
Sean's 1st Response:
Andy Grove you are lying once again, as you have these many years! I did not even speak to Catherine on the phone when she was in the car with you on her way to Arkansas, my wife Preethi did. Because of this, I have asked my wife to give testimony about what SHE spoke to Catherine about, soon to be posted below Lord willing. Furthermore, I appeal to all FaceBook Onlookers to beware, to not just believe every word they hear! We are all warned via scripture to beware of those who are set on fire of hell, whose tongues are used to set on fire the course of nature with lies and strife. I testify to you all, before God, that Andy Grove is a liar and a deceiver, just as these proverbs do accurately foretell: "Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth. As coals are to burning coals, and wood to fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife. The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly. Burning lips and a wicked heart are like a potsherd covered with silver dross. He that hateth dissembleth with his lips, and layeth up deceit within him; When he speaketh fair, believe him not: for there are seven abominations in his heart. Whose hatred is covered by deceit, his wickedness shall be shewed before the whole congregation. Whoso diggeth a pit shall fall therein: and he that rolleth a stone, it will return upon him. A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin." - Proverbs 26:20-28 May God fulfill His word and illuminate the truth as it was promised: "his wickedness shall be shewed before the whole congregation".
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Given Andy's witness, it is necessary that any sincere viewer would hear the report of Catherine, the one whom he speaks of and lies about, therefore I appeal to you, Jon Green, that you would not remove this link so that all things may be fairly considered: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a6o5Up3haI
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Jon Green's Interception (the creator of Discerning the Church of Wells):
SeanandPreethi Morris, I have removed your comments as they have no charity in them whatsoever. [Note by Sean: I have maintained those statements and reproduced them above that all may judge what was said, they are not hidden in this account.]
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Preethi's Response:
Dear Mr. Grove, Jon Green, and others reading this, I am writing in response to the account of Mr. Grove about his time with Catherine in the car when he drove her to Arkansas. Firstly, you can watch a video of Catherine's own account of the events that transpired starting from the day she called 911 and her father, Andy. In summary, she told us that she was overwhelmed at the situation of her parent's estrangement from the church and the slander they had produced. She called her father to come so that she could speak to him concerning his stance against the church, albeit there was sin as she was not rightly trusting the Lord. She was walking along the highway in the dark (she often goes for walks to pray when she is burdened or troubled) and there were cars trying to stop next to her. Her phone was dead, and she did not have any of our numbers in hand (she says she would have called us at this time if she could), so this is why she explains that she called 911. She was planning on meeting her dad at a restaurant to talk. However, she was taken and kidnapped against her will by her father. She notes that she repeatedly asked her father to stop while he drove her to Arkansas but he refused and kept driving. While she was in the car, Sean NEVER spoke to her even once! She called me twice. The first time the call got cut so we could not speak much. The second time I spoke to her briefly. She said she was repenting of her sin of not trusting the LORD about her parents, and that her father was being unreasonable. She said she was astonished at the darkness and deceit that he was in and the wicked state of his soul. She pleaded with him throughout the drive, but she says he was very unreasonable and hard to speak to. In my conversation with her I never said anything about the LORD killing her or the wrath of God to destroy her, etc. I spoke to her again when she called me from her parent's home in great distress having been physically and verbally abused by her family. She told me she was in a terrible situation, and explained that she was being forcibly restrained against her will. She requested that Sean and I pick her up. Sean spoke briefly to her about the directions to her home but said nothing about what Mr. Grove mentioned in his comment. Note that this was not even while she was in the car in the incident referenced above by Mr. Grove. After Catherine returned she related to me many times that her father was very untrustworthy and that much of what he said was untrue. She said that he lied to her throughout the entire time she was with him. She was astonished at the behavior in her father and was very burdened and brokenhearted for the state of his soul! How is it that the kindred of Paul Washer now believe, receive, and commune with workers of iniquity?! "20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law? 21 They gather themselves together against the soul of the righteous, and condemn the innocent blood. 22 But the Lord is my defence; and my God is the rock of my refuge. 23 And he shall bring upon them their own iniquity, and shall cut them off in their own wickedness; yea, the Lord our God shall cut them off." (PS 94:20)
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Jon Green's Response (the creator of Discerning the Church of Wells):
Thank you. Please explain "She said she was repenting of her sin of not trusting the LORD about her parents"
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Andy Grove's Response:
Sean, Listen to the 911 Call yourself. These facts CANNOT be changed. This is public information. Catherine called 911 when she crossed into Angelina County walking away from Wells and walking away from Cherokee County into the adjoining county and called 911 and requested to be picked up by a deputy. In the Sherifff's Office she requested to be taken to a women's shelter. This is the Second time our daughter Catherine that we can factually confirm has requested law enforcement to take her to a women's shelter from the Church of Wells. https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=15&v=I1yKee5bHWU
SECOND POINT. Angelina County Sheriff's Office says Catherine NEVER requested to go back to Wells. That is statement from ACSO. Captain Alton Lenderman of the Angelina County Sheriff’s Office : “She was very meek and very afraid to speak,” he recounted on the phone Friday afternoon, adding that he did not press her on why she wanted to leave the church. “She never once mentioned wanting to go back to Wells.” If she had, he would have been legally obligated to drive her there." http://www.texasmonthly.com/.../catherine-grove.../... Here it is stated again PUBLIC INFORMATION FACTUAL INFORMATION FROM ACSO : My daughter requested to go to be taken to a Women's Shelter. "Catherine said she wanted to go to a shelter, but wouldn't say anything. Lenderman told her he knew where a shelter was, but there was a process he had to go through" http://www.ktre.com/.../breaking-catherine-grove-escapes... Third FACT ... Your Statements Sean Morris and Jacob Gardner concerning my daughter Catherine to News Media right after she left. Sean your previous reply here earlier tonight directly conflicts with the statement below made to news media. "It remains unclear what prompted Catherine to leave the church this time. Multiple messages sent to Sean Morris, the lead elder, had not been answered as of press time. But Morris claimed in an interview with Jessica Cooley of the Lufkin Daily News that church members had offered her a ride, which she declined. Elder Jacob Gardner told the local ABC affiliate, KTRE, that Catherine “left with a bitterness in her heart for the Lord,” - See more at: http://www.texasmonthly.com/.../catherine-grove.../... |
Sean's Response:
Mr. Grove,
At first read your arguments sound reasonable and irrefutable, but you are not taking into account all the details of what happened. Those of you reading Andy’s arguments, take heed, they are lacking all the facts of the events which took place.
Yes, it is true that Catherine called 911 and was walking away from and out of Angelina County, walking away from Wells. She told us that she was overwhelmed at the situation of her parent's estrangement from the Church and the slander they had produced. She eventually called her father to come so that she could speak to him concerning his stance against the Church, albeit there was sin as she was not rightly trusting the Lord. How did it get to this point? Catherine explained to me that as she contemplated the upcoming wedding (and speaking to her fiancé about it), she had been anxious about inviting her parents after not having spoken to them in full extent about their slander and accusations about the church. She had for a time been convicted about not speaking to her parents except for a few phone conversations (in which her mother railed against the Church and Elders and would not give her much chance to speak) though the Elders and brethren had been encouraging her to reach out to them (an encouragement that Catherine was not heeding because of her anxiety and distrust of the Lord). The day she left for a walk down the road away from Wells, she had just spoken to her fiancé about wedding preparations and she was grieved at the mischief her parents had done and vexed sore. Rather than trusting the LORD she became frustrated and sought to speak to her father in the tumult of her anxiety, instead of with a sound mind, a prepared heart, being still before the LORD and prepared to give an account of the hope that is within her with meekness and fear. She admitted to the LORD, her father, and us that it was sin that she did not trust in the LORD and was thus acting in the ways she did, which ultimately furthered the onslaught of slander against the Church. She often goes for walks, but especially when she is upset or frustrated about something (which happens rarely), and this was one of those times. This is why she was walking down the road… It is true that we offered her a ride if she wanted to leave, and she refused it. (Note: at the time we did not know if she wanted to leave, or what she was thinking in her mind. She was walking down the road in frustration and we tried to talk to her, but she didn’t want to talk so we just left her alone. It was a point of rashness and frustration, and she wouldn’t open up and speak to us about what she was thinking… so we didn’t know. We found out all of this after she called Preethi when she was in the car on her way to Arkansas with her dad, or sometime thereafter. It is true that she had “bitterness in her heart for the Lord”, as Jake had said, but she wasn’t expecting to be kidnapped by her father. She requested to be brought back to Wells but Andy refused.) Now back to the flow of events in order: As Catherine was walking along the highway in the dark and there were cars trying to stop next to her, she eventually decided to call the Police to help her seeing it was dark and her phone was dead, and she wanted to talk to her father to try to settle the situation and put down the slander once and for all. Listen, we are not seeking to justify Catherine's sin - Catherine was upset at her parents for all their slander, upset and frustrated in a sinful way, and her fiancé, Ronnie, was trying to encourage her to trust in the Lord (to speak to her Parent’s with the right heart, in the right way), but Catherine was acting in the flesh at that time so she wasn’t going to be able to speak to her parents with the grace of God. So what happened, how did she finally talk to Andy? Catherine and Andy were talking on the phone at the Police Station, and because she told him she wanted to talk to him, Andy said he would drive to Texas to pick her up. She was hoping that Andy would listen to her when she spoke to him via phone at the Police Station, but she says he wouldn’t listen to her. Somewhere around this time, if I am not mistaken, is when she was asked if she wanted to go to a Women’s Shelter, as the News Clip stated: "Catherine said she wanted to go to a shelter, but wouldn't say anything. Lenderman told her he knew where a shelter was, but there was a process he had to go through" After Lenderman took her through the pre-requisite questionnaire to see if Catherine met the requirements to be admitted in the shelter, Catherine didn’t want to stay there because she knew she didn’t meet the criteria, and, also, she knew if she chose to stay there anyway it would provide opportunity for further slander against the Church. I say again, she did not know there was a criteria one must meet before being admitted to a Woman’s Shelter. Why was she even entertaining the idea of going there? She was going there just to temporarily get away (she was frustrated at Ronnie her fiancé and potentially some Brethren at the Church, I believe, because they were encouraging her to speak to her parents with the fruits of Christ [meekness, patience, sobriety, temperance, etc.], but Catherine got overwhelmed, frustrated, and just wanted to handle the situation in the flesh and talk to her parents in the heat of her spirit), but she wasn’t planning to leave the Church, she said. Catherine can act very rashly and frustrated sometimes, to her shame, and this was one of those times (it doesn’t necessarily make sense, but this is how she makes decisions sometimes when she is upset). We are not going to cover up for this, it is sin. It is unreasonable. It is misleading to those who are looking on, certainly. We have repeatedly encouraged her to speak to and be a good witness to her Parents, but her Parents have made it extremely difficult for her to speak to them in any sound way at all (see the video of her testimony if you want to hear more details from her own mouth). After Mr. Grove arrived to Texas and spoke to Catherine in person, he still wouldn’t listen to her. Catherine wanted to reason with him and speak to him further so they got in the car together… she just wanted to talk to her dad, albeit she says he wouldn’t listen to her when they spoke in the car. As they were driving in the car Catherine asked him to stop at a hotel, but Andy wouldn’t listen to her. Again, I repeat, she wasn’t intending to “leave the Church”, according to her OWN testimony. Furthermore, Mr. Grove fails to mention the multitude of times during the trip to Arkansas and thereafter leading to their attempt to have her insitutionalized in which Catherine pled with the Groves to take her back to Wells and was refused. In fact, while Mr. or Mrs. Grove drove her to the psyche ward, they lied to her telling her they were taking her to Wells! After being thoroughly examined at the psych ward she was found to be perfectly sane, but the process was prolonged because of the multitude of accusations which the Grove’s were making against the Church. By the time we went to pick up Catherine from the psyche ward (at her request), the personnel involved were so much aware of her parents' wickedness and Catherine's glorious sanity IN CHRIST that they provided police chaperones to go with us to pick her up (to protect us from her parents), and the personnel were favorable towards us. They knew she loved us (in Christ) and wanted to be with us with a completely sound mind, contrary to the false report of Andy. They also could see that the Groves were full of deceit and bent on mischief! Even the FBI were exasperated by the nonsense of the Groves. Yes, the FBI got involved when Catherine was at the hospital because of the outrageous claims and accusations the Grove’s were making. To all others who are sinfully obsessive and bent upon striving about all the details of this complicated situation, please, would you consider the warnings of the written word of God (I refer you to these verses of scripture in true love and with all sobriety)? “He that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears.” – Proverbs 26:17 “Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.” – James 3:5-6 |